More on Magic - Some Realizations

I've been talking about complicating the magic user class (here and here) by giving them possibly unlimited use of cantrips (0 level spells) but requiring the cantrips as prerequisites for higher level spells. Thus, to cast Mirror Image you'd have to have some kind of zero-level bend light cantrip (the first link above goes into that).

Rob Conley of Bat In the Attic suggested in a comment that I check out GURPS because the magic system does just that - it's progressive - to cast the really good stuff, you have to learn the really basic AND intermediary stuff. Very cool.

So I read through the magic system in GURPS 4e Magic (as well as the magic chapter in GURPS 4e) and I really like it. As I was reading I was thinking that I'd like to just bolt this on to AD&D - tweak it a little and then call it the magic system. I'd toyed with point systems before, so this wouldn't be that different. And GURPS (like 2ed) divides spells into colleges, which is okay - I think that I could deal with that, too - just have to brush up on the rules for non-college spell use. And GURPS has some really cool spells, too - so that's a plus - either bolted on nearly as is, or as a resource to mine for AD&D spells.

But it all kind of came crashing down on me when I saw this in the appendix:

That's when I realized that it wouldn't just be fiddly - but downright complex. Now, I recognize that GURPS 4e has something like 1,000 spells to deal with, so that's going to make the flowchart even more complicated and 1ed AD&D mages only have 260 (counting UA) spells (+66 Cantrips, though I'd be rewriting nearly all of those if I went with my system) and Illusionists 92(+8) - so AD&D is less complicated to begin with...but it might not be as easy to systematize those...352 spells (and 74 cantrips) in the way that GURPS has (NOTE 2ed has 312 magic user spells - divided into schools - cantrips are handled way differently than in 1edUA). NOTE, too that none of the above (AD&D) includes reversed spells. So...maybe it's not quite as uncomplicated as I thought at first...

So, I'm kind of back at the beginning. I really like AD&D (actually I like it as is but I'm a consummate tinkerer, so I can't help myself) - and I like GURPS magic - but I don't like GURPS rules in general (I like archetypes - character classes - ability scores - saving throws - etc the way they are in AD&D).

So I'm going to explore my ideas a little further - GURPS is a great reference for how to handle the idea of prerequisite spells - but I have to decide how UN-AD&D I'm willing to go. The whole original idea was similar to what James M posted here - only to reverse engineer it - so that it's a kind of "at will" ability for spell casters who know certain spells - not just when they have them memorized, but at just about any time - maybe limited in some way (like# of uses = INT + level or something...).

So - with GURPS sitting open here, the secondary effects from Trollsmyth (for B/X, but a start) and my PH, UA and 2ed PH open as well - I'll try to see what I can come up with...

Mages and Cantrips and Reverse Engineering

So a couple weeks ago I was musing about mages and cantrips and their relationship to higher level spells and I thought I'd expand on the ideas a little more.

Most cantrips from UA are kind of nuisance/utility spells - not powerful (good) but also not terribly related to upper level spells (bad...at least for what I want to do).

So I found some "Secondary and Residual Effects" for spells from Trollsmyth based in part on this and I thought that could be a cool addition to the magic using class...

So then I thought that I could "reverse engineer" cantrips based on these "secondary effects" (the residuals are just color for the most part). One question is how do the various higher level spells relate, and if they are related, how do they relate to learning some of these very basic magic...skills?

Or...since I might be overhauling the magic system (completely new spells - at least new names - loving the Vancian spell name generator I found online...) I could take current cantrips - and some new/original ones - and simply create new spells (yeah, "simply", I know...). Or...some combination of the two...

Plus, I have GURPS Magic that one commenter suggested...but it's pretty...complicated (yeah, I like things simple, honest...) so I don't have a real grasp on how it works, but I'd like to plow my way through it soon, just to get an idea.

So, here's a spell with secondary and residual effects:

Advanced Illusion Range: 180’

Illusionist 4 Duration: 1 minute/level

This spell functions like the spell spectral force, except that the illusion follows a script determined by the caster. The illusion follows the script without requiring the caster to concentrate on it. The illusion can include intelligible speech if the caster wishes; however, such speech is likewise scripted, so the illusion will not respond if spoken to.

Secondary: the illusionist can create a small 3-D illusory effect (no more than 3’x3’) that is a single color and translucent.

Residual: the illusionist glows slightly and makes inexplicable noises (jingling bells, sniffing sounds, etc).

Here's an idea for grouping it:

Cantrip: Bend Light (illusionist can create a small 3-D illusory effect - no more than 3'x3' that is a single color and translucent). Prerequisite for: Advanced Illusion, Blur, Color Spray, Dancing Lights, Hallucinatory Terrain, Illusory Wall, Invisibility, Improved Invisibility, Invisibility 10'r, Mass Invisibility, Mirror Image, Permanent Illusion, Programmed Illusion, Projected Image, Spectral Force, True Seeing, Wizard Eye)

Hmmm, okay, that's WAY too many spells - unless...perhaps some have more than one prerequisite...thus more than one "cantrip" needed to cast the spell (and available to the mage).

So...Advanced Illusion could be renamed:

Edditzi's sophisticated immaterial occultation